A Moderates View of LWO

I am always interested in hearing from people with alternative views whether they be political, religious or otherwise.  I am especially interested when those views are expressed respectfully and for the purpose of helping.  I have a number of gay friends and acquaintances who regularly give me feedback.  Sometimes I like it and sometimes I don't.  Even when I don't like it I often heed their advice.

My friend Mike Ensley came across a blog post on the most recent Love Won Out Conference that was held in San Jose, California.  It was written by someone I don't know, but from reading a bit of his blog would categorize as a Christian who comes from a moderate perspective.  I often believe moderates are the key to common ground....this man's blog post was encouraging so I thought I would share the link with you.

Comments

[David Roberts]

"Studies and surveys showed an overwhelming correlation between homosexuality and sexual/physical abuse, along with unmet or disturbed bonding with same-sex parents and/or peers."

You could help by referencing these studies.

[Bill Black]

Now THIS is what true HEroes are made of. They live in .....

a world without shame .....

Amen.

http://www.bgay.com/news/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=328&Itemid=23

[ewe]

You are out of your mind Alan.

[Jay]

I actually think I've come across Matthew Andrews before. He's a good blogger and writer, but can you really say that post was moderate? He agreed with everything that was said at LWO (and if he disagreed with anything, he didn't mention it). I don't see where the "alternate view" came in here.

If you want a good moderate viewpoint, you should check out ex-gay blogger Disputed Mutability's posts about LWO and Joe Dallas' talk. Hope you're having a great day, Alan.

[Alan Chambers]

I didn't say his post was moderate, just that he isn't someone that could be identified as a right wing, fundamentalist, etc., etc.

[Alan Chambers]

Ewe,

Are you in middle or high school? If so, disregard my assessment of your comments....my response to your comments are, "grow up."

[Jay]

Okay, then. I suppose I just misunderstood the context with which you were framing his post. My mistake. Have a great day.

[ewe]

Alan, heed your own advice. You cannot even accept your sexual orientation so spare anyone except yourself the high school rant. Fool.

[annonymous]

ewe,
The anger and bitterness you so often show here speak volumes of who the real fool is in this discussion. You are only reflecting the juvenile believe that your orientation is innate and fixed, which it is not.
Alan, I encourage you to continue to provide us with the truth regarding same-sex attraction in a compassionate and loving way. That is maturity.

[ewe]

Anonymous: where do you get your data that you state before your rotten response about me being rotten. You are alans fellow fool. There is no compassion on this blog about homosexuality. It is nothing but guilt ridden crap pretending to deal with orientation by not accepting it and trying to change. Just shut your ignorant hole altogether. You have not insight on this. YOu are in a closet.

[ewe]

and take your pathetic rendition on what you think god is and shove it deep up you know where. I will fight you to my death, you pathetic disgrace. There is no way in hell i would ever dishonor the lives of my friends lost by listening to you and alans spewing lies. Hate begets hate. You are getting it right back in your face and i hope it stings you exactly the way your self created bounded up mind deserves. I see right through your nonsense. You have absolutely no idea that your fantasy about god and wrath is bull. You are small. And waking up the unconscious takes a lot of rude remarks. YOu just don't want to wake up. It is very simple. People who agree with this alan character cannot accept their sexuality. They hate themselves. And i am going to continue to tell people like you and alan to go away or at the very least sit in silence with your shame. You are annoying and dangerous to gay youth.

[wjc]

Alan, I really don't get what you intended to do by posting this link. Was it to show that moderates can be swayed towards the extreme fundamentalist viewpoint and judgmentalism of organizations like FOTF?

The gospel is a message of mercy, grace and freedom. Exodus would do well to start helping gay Christians to start to walk in that freedom with integrity... whatever that looks like for each individual at the stage of the journey they are at. Please, stop dictating what that freedom means; and let the Counsellor do His work of revealing the meaning of freedom to us.

[ewe]

alan wants to pretend to be a christian minister but in order for him to accomplish that in his mind he has to wipe away the fact he is a fag. Stupid? yes! Alan is stupid? Yes!
Oh hold on everybody. Lets all just say we wish to be christian and that we are trying our very hardest to be god like people and loving before putting gay people down. Do us all a favor Alan and take your life.

[Bill Black]

Ewe,

You are buying into the rejection the religious uneducated yields about this subject, hence your anger is from your unresolved rejection issues throughout life blowing out on this topic, not unlike extremism at both ends on this subject.

The lines in the Bible concerning homosexuality were set at a time when pedophilia was publicly rampant, hence those lines made it into the Bible to curb
that "abomination". They are not directed at adult gay relationships, but man/boy sex, that in that day was not just rampant, but illegal. To this day it is still practiced in some Middle Eastern areas.

The lines were most likely also aimed at the priests who were guilty of the same thing, which has never stopped. When you flat line your own buy in of rejection on these topics, and realize from where the lines in the Bible truly came regarding same sex engagement, then Alan's entire journey becomes instead of a threat to be retaliated against, to a mere punchline to be laughed off with a belly belting gaffah. And after that, compassion, a much less frustrating place from which to draw calm.

Peace,

Bill Black

[ewe]

Bill: you are most welcome to process your thoughts the way you see fit. I hear what you are saying but do not entirely agree.

[ewe]

Bill Black- You are right about compassion and i misspoke when i said Alan should take his own life. I did not mean that. My frustration is unnecessary because i do actually feel empathy for all these gay men and women who are attempting to change a natural state of being within themselves. I, too, am attmepting to tell them that celebrating who you are is the way to live. I am tired of this blog and all its useless shame but it is Alans perogative. I am saddened to say that i would not ever want to meet him. The entire energy field is negative and you made me realize how i was getting sucked into it. For that i thank you Bill. It is not my responsibility to tell people to accept themselves. They are on their own journey and they can feel good or bad about what they are doing. I still feel this blog of Alans is pathetic. He has no idea how dangerous his sentiments are toward people who have no one to tell them they are wonderful just the way they are. I will continue to do that elsewhere i suppose.

[Bill Black]

The wolf will always attack the lambs when weak and defenseless. For this, these exgay seminar leaders are paid. The church has always been a money game, pay this and go to heaven etc, don't and go to hell, very trite and erroneous, but effective on some.

It's very addicting for those involved. But for those who do not pander to such silliness, it's good to note that mere freedom when mentally and emotionally intact, is the pathway to heaven. When one is clear minded, love is natural.

Glad for your insight Ewe. The more rational we stay, the more we can attract sane people to our cause, the more we can then accomplish. The exgays are playing a losing game, they know it, have compassion and just keep showing the light. Hate is implosive, they will have to overcome their inner rage at their true selves, or they may very well attract disease and die.

I truly have compassion for those in the exgay world who are at the hands of these so called leaders. They are scared to move for fear of attack. They are vulnerable confused and in vicious inner pain. The last thing they want to see is us as ranting riotous freaks, scaring them even more.
Hoever, there is no more hiding out, we are evolving as a race, discrimination will no longer be tolerated. What are those words, 'resistance is futile.'

Best always,

Bill Black

[Alan Chambers]

WJC,

Dictating what freedom looks like? I don't do that. Point to a place where I do.

My point in posting this had NOTHING to do with Focus or LWO but everything to do with someone who might not like Focus or LWO seeing the conference for what it is: an honest, compassionate discussion on homosexuality.

[ewe]

wjc is kind enough to say please to you. I say shut the hell up alan. You are the last person to be commenting on honest compassionate discussions. you are a delusional hypocrite. You don't accept your sexual orientation alan. You are ashamed of who you are and have attempted for years now to change yourself by denying who you are inside because you are obsessed with the outside and call that your previous gay experience. You and that Randy thomas are two peas in a pod. The both of you have trapped yourselves in positions of employment that bash gay people and you have no way out of your fear because your lifestyle and identity which you actually have chosen cannot continue without your preaching on how to be a good ex gay. You are an idiot and i changed my mind. I am gonna continue telling you so. Ask yourself if their was anyone at those conferences that celebrated the fact they are gay and accept themselves or better yet a couple who have been committed to each other for years. No such observation in your focused compassionate discussion huh Alan? I think one could definitely portray that agenda as dictating freedom in a very specific way. Your way. Your shame. Your denial. Get a boyfriend Alan before your middle aged self gets even older and you wither away alone in your mind and your nosensical narrow minded thoughts on human sexuality. You are so incredibly annyoying. Tell us you are gay Alan, that you have a real problem with it but that is what you are and maybe just maybe we can respect some of the words that are nothing more than dribble. The people you put down as broken are the only ones who truly understand you and the gay people that accept themselves are not only going to be there for you but are actually your salvation. And i mean salvation as a fullfilled life lived not your corny rendition of something beyond yourself in the future.

[ewe]

so alan, i am waiting for you to tell me that you are gay. Tell us Alan if you are a gay man. Oh come on alan, you are old enough to talk about sexual orientation since your entire blog has been established on that very subject. I know you are not straight. I know that just as much as i know that your involuntary muscles keep your heart beating inside your chest when you sleep. Got anything to add that does not harbor the lie you have built up around yourself like an infection cutting into the rest of your system killing you softly? Too heavy for you Alan? Is it easier for you to try to be heterosexual than admit you are homosexual? I doubt it. Give yourself a pat on the back for giving it your old college try and start really healing the people that look up to you. I am not one of them. Don't you dare think that and don't you think for one second i will ever let you not be reminded of it. I do know that some people are in such pain around this issue and i hope they see that them being gay is who they are, perfect just the way it is today; a gift from god that you try so diligently to erase. I know you lie to yourself and stopped growing emotionally a very long time ago. That is not the same type of derogatory tone you display with me by calling me names and accusing me of immaturity. I laugh at your feeble attempts to silence me. You have no power over me at all. You are too damaged to realize that i act more like a friend to you than you do to yourself. This is a necessary sentiment that makes all of us sad because you are so utterly alone with yourself and you know damn well that the outside trimmings of your life do not match the inside of your soul. I am sure you are seething and going to attempt to respond with dismissive comments if at all but actually i don't really care too much about what you have to say because it's all a bunch of lies bathed in fear and shame and you don't give a damn about yourself. And if reading this even makes you just a little bit sad, i would see hope for you. You just have no idea how many people you drag down into the pits of hell right here in this paradise with you because of your personal hang ups. For that you are a danger. Yes perhaps a child of god but a misguided one. And for all that i have said to you, the statement is this Alan: you should shut up and do the listening instead of trying to act like an elder of sexual healing. You never dealt with your inner self except to avoid so you have no experience to share with people like me. Every time i hear you speak, i see what your words do to people that have a hard time loving themselves. It is not supportive. It is not acceptable. You should be ashamed of that if ashamed of anything at all. You should grow up. You should be confronted each and every time for the narrow minded bigoted right wing fundamentalist image you choose to hide behind. And until then i will continue to make sure there are those out here who stand up and say you are the not the light nor the way, and most definitely not the word. I already know you know your life is unfullfilled. I feel sorry for you but don't think about it in a nice way because the way you have acted up until this point, i would still have to slap you upside the head for being such a jackass for choosing to channel in such a terribly demoralizing and unhealthy way to your gay brothers and sisters. I will never quietly accept people that behave the way you do.

[ewe]

and don't you forget this sweety: i am here for you when you admit and embrace the truth about yourself. You do not have to be alone.

[Alan Chambers]

EWE:

I am going to leave your crazy posts here as documentation. Calling for me to commit suicide simply proves your mental state and hatred.

As for "being there" for me when I decide to embrace YOUR truth about homosexuality, don't hold your breath.

However, when you decide to bow your knee before Jesus, I'd be glad to pray with you.

From here on out, though, you are banned from commenting here.

Alan Chambers

[wont stand for censorship]

You are in denial Alan. You dont read the retraction about suicide and you convince yourself acceptance of homosexuality is "my" truth. Misguided brat. Don't suffocate waiting for me to pray with you. For you maybe but not with you.

[Bill Black]

Alan,

"Misguided brat", no words are better spoken.

I must say with the win today in California to over turn the ban on same sex marriage, and the start of legally marrying sane loving committed gay couples in 30 days, your comment "grow up" might just apply, to you.

Just because you didn't have the tenacity to find your way out of your self created self hating homosexual box, does not mean no one else can. Most never even go there. You simply didn't try hard enough. You took the easy way out. You chose not to deal with your sexual addictions and fear. It was much easier for you to listen to others' opinion about how you should be, less you having to look at yourself head on. It is most likely time that your attractions to men intensifies, so you get your lesson: get fixed and don't screw with God's plan.

Hiding out in religious belly aches smacks of a lost child wishing he could be right so as to avoid God's reality. Haven't you heard? God IS your real self. Are you so arrogant that you think you can actually out smart the mass consciousness and justify your seedy backwoods homo-hanging agenda? Com'on sad child, your days are numbered, do grow up, or get lost in the downfall of your hateful rhetoric.

Your messianic blabber just doesn't stand up to God's natural world, be it your historical church's hate filled stance on supporting slavery, women's injustice, the world being flat, or the abolishment of gay sex. Your sickness knows no depths. You are a user-extrodinaire. You use God and Jesus to support your hate filled mega-diseased meanderings. Nature has proven homosexuality is valid, yet you stand fixated, as if in a trance dealt you by some off planet ray gun. And you even KNOW, that the Bible speaks of homosexual rape / pedophilia in your favored verses to debase. Yet you refuse to entertain common sense.

You have lost .... I bet you think that's a real bummer, that you are the righteous one "leader" according to your self enhanced Godspell, and everyone else is wrong. Not any longer stink bomb. You ought to quit now, lest ye be the last flame burning. With your miraculous ability to sexually judge and sexually debase self and others, the latter will most likely be the case. When the last puff of smoke rises from your ashes, you will be forgotten.

I do however, have to say one thing to your credit; I have never seen a loser go the distance like you have. Actually the head of an organization bent on teaching people sexual shame. Congratulations are duly in order. You're the Ku Klux Konfuser of really good people. Man have you got a long road back.

Don't take this post too hard. I'm just one of those bullies in your youth that taunted you, constantly, relentlessly, so that maybe, just maybe, you might stand up and be counted the winner God so wanted you to be. But no. Not to happen. You're the boy who stood down in shame, wimpering away in our laughter. And now you are ageing away, with that angry little boy, still in full control. You turned out to be pure disappointment regarding authenticity, common sense and correct thinking. You blog says it all. With all the negative remarks, it's a given you revel in negative attention. You give the term "high maintenance" new meaning.

I don't have to say shame on you. Your shame preceeds you.

Better luck next time around, you very angry little boy.

Bill Black

[Angela Wolcott]

This isn't about your blog, I am just not sure how to contact you. I am trying to find the Allan Chambers who worked in Bigfork, Montana. I am on the reunion committee for the Bigfork Summer Playhouse's 50th Reunion in 2009, and you are on my list of people to find. IF this is you, would you mind sending me your current details (email, phone and address) so that an invite can be sent to you? Thanks. If this isn't you, thanks for your time. Have a wonderful day.